June 22, 2013
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Women Rejoice, You are the New Men and It Couldn't Be More Awesome
When it comes to matters of money in relationships the old saying,"I'm going to date and marry rich," should be thrown out of our collective consciousness and our relationship-speak as women (I do not speak for all women but marrying rich and perhaps not signing a pre-nup, as divorce has become an inevitability, is the way to golden living, so to speak). ATTENTION WOMEN: we are currently on the way to not only out-earning men but we have increasingly become the SOLE BREADWINNERS of our households (if you are engaged or married or even divorced). The traditional roles of who brings home the bacon has finally changed, a complete 180 in fact, from the way it has been since dinosaurs roamed the Earth. Can I get a loud "FINALLY"!
I have always been a true blue feminist and I believe that you should never ever be financially dependent upon a man. You should have your own career and be successful in whatever you have set out in your life to accomplish. We are living in the 21st century and us women have just as much opportunity as men, if not more, to be successful in whichever career path we have chosen. The sky is the limit. That being said, according to The New York Times article: U.S. Women on the Rise as Family Breadwinner women are not only more likely to be the primary caregivers of the family, they are increasingly becoming the sole breadwinners of their family, FUCK YEAH!
Four in 10 American households with children under age 18 now include a mother who is either the sole or primary earner for her family, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of Census and polling data released Wednesday. This share, the highest on record, has quadrupled since 1960.
The shift reflects evolving family dynamics.
There are many factors that have contributed to the increase in women as sole breadwinners, which include, of course, the horrible state of the economy and being a single parent. But no matter, these statistics are a giant leap for women-kind all over the U.S.!*Please note I have nothing but the utmost respect for women who choose to stay home and raise a family and be there every waking moment for their family. It is one of the most selfless things to do; my mother stopped working to raise my brother and me and she was fortunate enough that she was able to as my father is and was a very successful businessman. It's a different world today.*
What are your thoughts on women as the sole providers and breadwinners of their families?
Comments (113)
My thoughts are... who is paying you?Men. If you rely on a paycheck, you rely on your car (invented and built by men) to get you to work. You rely on public roads (built by men) to allow your car to get you to work. Once you're at work, you rely on customers to buy your service or product (including but not limited to... you guessed it, men), you rely on your boss to make out the check and sign for it (who may or may not be a man), you rely on the bank teller to cash/deposit it, you rely on the people who accept your money to provide you with a service.Independent is as independent does. Nobody who uses money is independent, or the "sole" anything.This isn't a male/female thing. It's an everybody working together thing.Women are the new women.
I don't think it's that great, honestly. Realize, these findings don't just mean women who want to be in the workforce and men who want to stay at home--it also means more men (unwillingly) out of work, and more women who can't be at home with their children even if they wanted to be.Personally, I would rather be a stay at home mom--if/when I have children. I don't want to pay a stranger to raise my children when it might as well be me.
So this just means men are getting laid off or being underemployed and women are the main/sole bread winners by default. How is this a good thing..? I really don't know any chick that wants the burden of being sole bread winner.
I agree with the other comments!
@T3hZ10n@xanga - without gravity, we'd be all floating towards the sun and turn into sun crisp chips we should be working for dinosaurs. an evil human tossed a pineapple into the volcano one day and enraged the volcano. then the volcano erupted and caused a massive cloud of ash to block the sun for years. without the sun, the plant eating dinos slowly died due to the crops that they feasted on dying. without fat dinos to chase and eat, the meat eating dinos died as a result. humans are ruining earth as we speak. they aren't breadwinners, they are dino killers!!!!! the sun will avenge them soon!
@P0RCELA1N_D0LL@xanga - "without gravity, we'd be all floating towards the sun and turn into sun crisp chips"False. Without gravity, there would be no sun... as the gasses would be (relatively) evenly distributed throughout the universe.
I'm all for equal opportunity. THAT SAID, a large part of this trend is due to something called "affirmative action" which is really just codespeak for legalized and mandatory discrimination against men and the majority race in whatever country you happen to reside in. Affirmative action sets minimum quotas of female and "minority" race employees that businesses must meet. That means if a position is vacated, they often have to hire women or minorities and have no choice, even if they are less qualified. Job offers should be based on qualifications alone. If that means a completely homogenous work place then so be it, they were the most qualified candidates at the time the job was posted. Affirmative action has lowered the quality of products, research, etc. being produced by companies because they are having to hire less-qualified workers to meet their minimum quotas. This is an unfair, unjust, and discriminatory mode of hiring, yet it's mandated by law in many developed countries. It's no wonder a very vast majority of homeless people worldwide are male, among other not-so-happy statistics. I'm glad to see gender roles broken, and I'm all for women in the workplace, but I'm not happy that it's at the expense of more qualified male candidates getting passed over because of stupid quotas.
This makes me happy. Women having jobs and taking care of the kids isn't new - it's always been like that, even in the Mystical 1950s era that everyone likes to compare today to (except Upperclass White women, they could afford to stay home and raise the kids and not work).Women are doing the same amount of work (going to a job everyday and then coming home and taking care of the house), but they're getting paid more for it. Women being breadwinners might be a new thing, but women working and raising kids is not.
This sounds miserable to me. I understand it's become an economic necessity for some women to support the family financially (and some are fine with the arrangement, more power to them). But as far as "evolving family dynamics," being the breadwinner is a responsibility I'd rather give to a man, who would probably be better and more comfortable with it than I would (though I can definitely hold my own in the workplace). I would prefer to stay home and take care of the domestic stuff while pursuing my interests and projects on the side. I don't want to be "The New Man!"
But I like being a woman! As far as I'm concerned, I'm not settling down with anyone if they have intentions of me being the sole bread winner, that is not happening..... Unless my man is going to do all the cooking, cleaning and watching the kids all day. Even then I think I would harbor resentment towards him for not working. I would understand if he was laid off, but honey you bet I'd be wanting him to get a job ASAP.
Actually, in all my "relationships" and relationships, I have always been the one to pay and I am tired of it, especially when I am not being treated well when I treat them out and they still don't commit to me. I finally went out on one date last week where the guy pays. About damn time. A while ago I was discussing this with a friend I said to her, ever notice that we're paying for the guys these days? She said, "Couldn't agree more."I believe it should be equal. If one pays all the time how much money is the household really losing when they could make double that if both people were working?
@xraindropsonroses@xanga - Why is it always getting a job?You preach independence through dependence and subservience.Why isn't it "He had better grow crops or own land."? It's always about serving those who are already successful thus working against oneself. Alas, so long as you can find a man who does this and be happy, society's problems and your contribution to them don't really matter.Why isn't it a man who can build his own house, or gather/hunt/grow his own food? So long as he acquires it, it doesn't really matter to you how... even if other people are doing the majority of the work and he's just profiting off of it. Some women these days are really sickening. They really don't consider how they're getting what they want, so long as they get it, it doesn't matter.Your preferences have nothing to do with "independence" and everything to do with what comes with it (or what used to anyway).You see an attractive man hard at work and your primal urges tell you he's doing something good. You're no better than a man looking at a woman's ass who is bending over and assuming she is a good mate.
"ATTENTION WOMEN: we are currently on the way to not only out-earning men but we have increasingly become the SOLE BREADWINNERS of our households...Can I get a loud "FINALLY"!And feminists wonder why people think it's about female supremacy! "I have always been a true blue feminist and I believe that you should never ever be financially dependent upon a man.""Please note I have nothing but the utmost respect for women who choose to stay home and raise a familyStandard feminist contradictions... and this entire post pretty much reeks of "men are useless! Women are better!".More importantly, you're actually promoting the idea of single parent households solely on the basis of "yeah! Women!" without even taking 5 seconds to think about that. First off, most single parent households happen due to necessity! A BAD necessity! As in, father leaves the mother with a kid/kids to fend for themselves. But.. for the sake of your "yeah women!" mentality, you say things like "women are not only more likely to be the primary caregivers of the family, they are increasingly becoming the sole breadwinners of their family, FUCK YEAH!" despite that fact that it isn't usually a positive thing. Does that really make sense to you?Second... just, REALLY? Yet again, for the sake of "yeah women!" you're seriously PROMOTING the idea of single parents! As someone with a shitty father and ultimately single mother, yeeeeah, it's wasn't a particularly good, or easy thing.Furthermore, here you are fighting against gender roles and you post a picture of a woman holding her... can't be more than 9 year old daughter, WEARING HIGH HEELS! Gee, I guess you're all for women out-earning men but apparently 9 year olds should be wearing heels. Great start on ruining all of your backs! Feminism, everyone.
I don't know whether this is good or bad, since it sounds like it's simply a statistic. Women are becoming sole breadwinners for good AND bad reasons. Many more women are now college educated and many more careers are women-friendly and no longer have a boy's club stigma (businesswomen, doctors, policewomen, ect). But at the same time, I'm sure the increase in single mothers and men getting laid off from their jobs also contribute to this.All that matters to me, as a women, is not being barred from a career or job field based on my gender, nor am I denied equal pay and equal opportunity for promotion. What happens within a family situation is not my business. Some will gladly support a stay at home husband/father, some will insist on being supported, others will do so only after being asked to stay home by their husband, and then some will work regardless. Whatever works for your household and it's needs, both domestic and financial.I do think with children, though, it's most ideal if only one parent (either parent) works full time and the other only has a job if it at least allows them to be home with the children before and after school. Maybe I just think that because that was how I grew up myself.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - without humor, you'd be an asshole.
@Jenny_Wren@xanga - You mean that more women earning money doesn't automatically mean that women are somehow supreme?! You mean it could be the result of negative factors?! Well hogwash. Let's not mention that, it doesn't serve our agenda. Not at all!OP: You've confused me. Were you being politically correct, or just intellectually inconsistent when you first say, quite emphatically, that "[a woman] "should never ever be financially dependent upon a man. You should have your own career," but then go on to add, at the end-"*Please note I have nothing but the utmost respect for women who choose to stay home and raise a family and be there every waking moment for their family. It is one of the most selfless things to do; my mother stopped working to raise my brother and me and she was fortunate enough that she was able to as my father is and was a very successful businessman. It's a different world today.*"P.S. that was more sarcastic than inquisitive.
@TheGuyYouD0ntKnow@xanga - Not that I want to defend this post, not in the least, but she hasn't actually promoted anything to do with single parentage. She's said they're becoming the sole breadwinners, but that's not inherently synonymous with single parenting. Breadwinning refers solely to monetary income. There are such things as stay at home dads, which aren't precluded by her statements.I'm just pointing this out for the sake of intellectual consistency.
@Ghillies_guide@xanga - Thank you for pointing that out. I was actually taking it from the "primary caregivers" statement, which appears to have gone into my head as "sole caregiver", because, you know, I sometimes read like an ass. So.. yes, admitted flaw in my comment!Edit: I discovered why I did it... I had the sole from "sole breadwinners" stuck in my head from earlier and it somehow merged when I was actually writing... uch.
@P0RCELA1N_D0LL@xanga - False. Without humor, you would find me to be an asshole.
@TheGuyYouD0ntKnow@xanga - No worries. I just figured I'd point it out before the feminazis saw it and ran with it, detracting from your other, valid, point.Which would be sure to happen, since they don't actually have an intellectual argument for their position, let alone the ability to accurately and honestly define their position. It'd be the same argument, had on an almost daily basis somewhere in this Xanga community, with the same effect; wankery.
Congratulations ladies. You now get to work 40-50 hours a week for 30-40 years pushing money toward the government, your retirement, a slightly bigger car, a slightly bigger house (you get to spend less time in that house), miss your children's activities and all the guilt that comes with it. You are now a complete feminist. How did that feel? Kind of wish you could just go back? Too late.
Forbes did a survey of working women and found that 84% of working women wished they could stay at home and raise their children. 33% resented their partner for not earning enough to allow them to stay at home. Here is the link: LinkIt is funny because Feminism is no longer selling what women even want. The desire to be paid equal pay for equal work is not the same as the desire to work outside the home. The person who wrote this post is not in tune with that important difference.
@TheTheologiansCafe@xanga - Well, seeing as how most career-driven women don't want to partake in the ultimate act of evil (reproduction) that doesn't much matter. Most of these top earning women remain chlidfree for the duration of their lives so they have no guilt to worry about. They don't have any children to miss their kids' activities!
@T3hZ10n@xanga - My sentiments. But how does one show he's better since responsible labor isn't in the face of women as much as that of the "hard worker" who just earns money to feed the system as it is?
The solution to this conundrum (that @TheTheologicansCafe) has pointed out:1. Stop over-consuming, folks. Spend less money. 2. Decrease the number of hours in the standard work week per person but maintain the same total number of hours required for role. I think 30 hours per week would be acceptable. Or push for more job sharing. This will not benefit the economy but you can only push so far in one direction before there is a correction. Personally, I think we're already seeing that correction but it is going to get worse before it gets better. I'm a female who isn't all that excited by the thought of being a stay at home ANYTHING. I like working (when I like my job) but I don't like the stress of trying to keep my house clean, preparing my own meals, working out, laundry, etc. In my opinion, it is impossible to have it all AND be happy under our current structure. Forget about throwing kids into the equation (I don't have any)- that would be uber stressful. I think there is a happy medium where both genders can work and spend time at home but we are far from it.
@secretbeerreporter@xanga - Sources? I tend to disagree with your last statement.
@TheTheologiansCafe@xanga - When the amount of work you do/how much you actually produce is not directly correlated with how much you make, I wouldn't call that "earning".See: http://www.datingish.com/774067762/women-rejoice-you-are-the-new-men-and-it-couldnt-be-more-awesome/?id=1528852368Women do not understand the concept of working against oneself."Jobs" are no longer about accomplishing a task and being proportionally rewarded for it. Jobs these days are to make someone else money; a job that is never over; a job in which you are working against yourself... because the more money one person has, the less another will have. Thus is the inherent flaw with the idea of "independence": inflation.Thus is the inherent flaw with people believing they are "losing" money because they are not making as much as they "could". Making money ≠ losing money. To say one is losing money because they are not making as much as they could is to say they are entitled to money they have not yet earned.@jasonwl@xanga - Nice timing.I don't know. Hunger games?
@TheTheologiansCafe@xanga - I am the exception to that. I do not like the home, and I hate most men. They are worthless to me. I'm sterile on top of everything else. I'll never have children, and I don't want them either.
@light_blue_fables@xanga - By "career driven" I mean women who are motivated by their careers and that means professional careers. I don't mean someone who works retail for extra income, I mean real professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers, airline pilots, executives, etc.) who make big bucks. It's a known trend that the higher one's income the less likely they are to reproduce, and that trend isn't new. It's been around for decades.
@TheTheologiansCafe@xanga - I'm not sure I would reference a survey to be representative off all women.It's not about who's working more, making more money, and who's watching the kids. Not just women, but people as a whole should be striving to rise above social norms. Don't let surveys or gender roles define you, or what you do. Women experience push and pull factors attributing to whether they are stay at home mothers or working mothers, but the deciding factor in the end is that many women cannot afford to be stay at home mothers. Another issue is childcare for working mothers isn't entirely accommodating, either. I think most families aren't struggling with the idea of who's the breadwinner of their family as much as they just want what's best for their family and in most cases nowadays, it's to have both parents working.
@secretbeerreporter@xanga - Just because these women don't reproduce doesn't mean that they didn't want to. As women continue to expand into those high profile careers, I think you'll find that the correlation is not as strong.
Women are the new men? Fantastic. Allow me to sit back and watch the deliciously ironic results of this "wonderful" trend for women. Moving out of the frying pan is great, and it's really nice in this warm fire! We should totally encourage more people to move from the frying pan to the fire! Whee!
@light_blue_fables@xanga - Truth. It's more of the same faulty behaviorism."Because that's the way it is, that's apparently the way people want it to be."
Does this mean I get to stand outside a restaurant door for a half hour waiting for someone to open it, and then, when one of these "new men" opens the door for me and smiles in my direction, I get to go home and write fifty blogposts on the evils of the neo-patriarchy and how this "new man" oppressed me with a smile? Please? Pretty please? @light_blue_fables@xanga - Agreed. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that career-oriented women are any less interested in having kids than SAHM's. It's a fairly basic biological drive, to have offspring, and I doubt a century or two of social reform is going to change that.
I can't imagine why anyone is so excited for women to be the sole breadwinners for a family. It's called financial independence, and I think families should be a collective. If I'm going to be working, so is my husband. Of course, I would gladly support him if he lost his job, but no one is going to piggy back off of me.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - i think you're getting a little desperate with your definition of the word "independent." many women are dependent on men to the point of being unable to function daily without their husbands or boyfriends. my friend's mother doesn't know how to pump gas herself, because that's always been something her husband does. when my mother and father divorced, she struggled with finances because that had always been something my father took care of. i think that's the independence women should seek: being capable of living on our own, without needing a male counterpart to take care of us.
@Kittyluve@xanga - i wouldn't mind it. i'm far more career-oriented than my boyfriend, and i have no interest in being an unpaid maid/cook on a daily basis.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - how am i desperate, exactly?
@wildchildofthebluemoon@xanga - Financial independence. Explain this concept.You are independent in that people who are also independent give you money that you need in order to live, because if other people didn't give you said money, you would not survive.Tell me, how is that being "independent" in any way?In our current social setup, everybody is piggybacking off of each other.@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - I think you're already desperate and you're judging from a glass house. I bet you don't know how to produce gas yourself. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you rely on someone else to do that for you.If you want to call me desperate, consider that besides allowing people into or popping them out of your body, there is virtually nothing you are better or more independent at than I am. I don't care how much money you make. That doesn't reflect your ability or worth.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - Intrinsically.
@TheGuyYouD0ntKnow@xanga - "First off, most single parent households happen due to necessity! A BAD necessity! As in, father leaves the mother with a kid/kids to fend for themselves."i think the point is that if such a thing happens, the woman doesn't have to struggle because she is capable of taking care of herself and her children. "despite that fact that it isn't usually a positive thing."it should be. as for supremacy, you seem to be arguing in favor of male supremacy by saying that it's a bad thing that women can now maintain households on their own. if men have always been banking on women's dependence, they need to come up with a better reason for being needed. "As someone with a shitty father and ultimately single mother, yeeeeah, it's wasn't a particularly good, or easy thing."not all single-parent households have the same issues as yours did. yeah, my father left. but he was still very much a wonderful father and continues to be. my parents' divorce was very amicable and they are good friends now, similar to how things were before they ever got together romantically. so no, being a single parent isn't always horrible. "I guess you're all for women out-earning men but apparently 9 year olds should be wearing heels. Great start on ruining all of your backs! Feminism, everyone."part of being a feminist is telling women that can do whatever they like, including wearing high heels.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - uh-huh. keep telling yourself that.
@TheTheologiansCafe@xanga - perhaps men have been sucking at managing their career lives throughout all of history. none of the working women i know doing anything of the sort.
@Ghillies_guide@xanga - whether it's the result of negative factors, i still think it's a good thing that women are now more capable of being financially independent from men than they were a couple of decades ago. i don't care if women are supreme, as long as they're equal in every sense.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - I apologize. Let me clarify. Financially independent of your spouse, meaning that you could provide for yourself without the existence of your spouse. For example, he has a job and I have a job, and while we work together financially, I don't *need* his money and he doesn't *need* mine. I usually assume people can extrapolate meaning from context without further explanation, but sometimes people can't.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - I told you that because you asked."perhaps men have been sucking at managing their career lives throughout all of history. none of the working women i know doing anything of the sort."Truth.
@wildchildofthebluemoon@xanga - Sometimes people apply this concept to other things fallaciously. Thank you for your elaboration. It makes a lot more sense and is harder for others to take out of context.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - Nothing has changed from last week, Belinda, when I told you I couldn't care less what you thought.Look, Britney, I know you crave attention from me, but I'm not interested. I really think it's best, Beatrice, if you just ignore me like I've asked you repeatedly.It's for the best, Bethany. Smooches.
@Ghillies_guide@xanga - are my feelings supposed to be hurt because you don't know my first name? most people on xanga don't. i prefer it that way. if i feel like replying to a comment you post on a public forum, i will do so (particularly when you say something asinine). is there someone at your house holding a knife to your balls, forcing you to read it? if you don't want to speak to me, you probably shouldn't. why i should respect your request to ignore you is beyond me.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - So, just to recapA) Brenda doesn't understand the concept of sarcasm to illustrate apathyB) she's not actually looking for dialogue, she'd rather just spout off her opinions, even to people who have repeatedly and clearly informed her they have no interest in hearing them, whatsoever. Tell me more about how you want to be taken seriously, won't you?
@Ghillies_guide@xanga - @flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - The two of you would make the cutest couple. If you end up together after this suggestion, will you name your firstborn after me? It is a small request.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - Nice edit. Do you often have difficulty organizing your simple thoughts, and have to go back to them?"Why i should respect your request to ignore you is beyond me."My apologies. I didn't actually think I was dealing with a person battling mental retardation. I assumed you were at least functional enough to comprehend what even third graders can grasp.
@TheTheologiansCafe@xanga - Sure thing.Did you want numbnuts spelled with an S or a Z?
@TheTheologiansCafe@xanga - haha. sorry, but i'd never date such an old-fashioned man.
@Ghillies_guide@xanga - i normally enjoy dialogue, but i only find that valuable in a face-to-face setting. online debate is akin to having a meaningful conversation via text. when i post online, it's simply to say what i have to say. also, you make the assumption that i actually remember what you've said to me in the past. i usually forget you exist until i see a comment from you. when it comes to people i don't like, particularly in an online setting, i have the memory of a goldfish.
I think I'll just let the implications of that reply speak for themselves.
Guys can be just as clueless as girls. There are a lot of men working in the kitchen for the food industry, so what can you say to that? You either make the rent or you are homeless. Everyone has to provide for themselves.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - Dude is a troll. You're wasting your time replying to him.If you've noticed the only time he comments on a post is to talk shit. Unlike myself with the occasional "Well said." and "Good post.", he only comments on Datingish to start shit.It's a good thing he doesn't know your first name. He uses that as a trolling tactic.In his comments he's all "Josh... Josh... Josh..." and you can't really do the same thing back. He's just trying to annoy you.He also talks shit about comment editing as if it's an indication of intelligence rather than you having to break down the things you say in simple terms so his little mind can understand.
I don't want to be a new man. I want to be a kick ass bitch in heels and a push up water bra. feminists are ironic because they condemn men for being exactly what they want to be.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - Your falsies are void infinity.The sun doesn't need gravity The sun still survives because the sun eats sun chips to stay invincible the only human, who is almost as cool as the sun is, The ROCK
@P0RCELA1N_D0LL@xanga - Oh, beautiful daughter of mother nature, do forgive me for overlooking a technicality.The sun doesn't need gravity like plants don't need gardeners.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - "it should be. as for supremacy, you seem to be arguing in favor of male supremacy by saying that it's a bad thing that women can now maintain households on their own. if men have always been banking on women's dependence, they need to come up with a better reason for being needed."I was arguing in favor of having two parents, actually."part of being a feminist is telling women that can do whatever they like, including wearing high heels. "And yet feminism is also against gender roles and "social constructs"; and the idea that wearing high heels is feminine certainly is. That's not even the whole point of course... the problem is that giving your young daughter high heels because apparently that's what women wear, is encouraging the idea, manipulating a young mind that has yet think on it itself, and also giving a grand head start on back problems all for the sake of a false concept!
This is interesting because women are becoming the sole breadwinners but we are still paid less than men on average for the same jobs.......I think you mean to put an in- in front of equality.
As much as I want to celebrate with you, I can't. Unfortunately, this number does not reflect the triumph of women over a corrupt system, rather it marks a decline in men's willingness to take responsibility for their own actions. In a study by the U.S. Census Bureau, roughly 40% of children grow up without a father (for African Americans it is 64%, whites it is 25% and Hispanics it is 34%....which evens out to about 30-40%). I cannot help but notice that this is the same percentage as the number of women who are the sole breadwinners. It appears that the reason for this is actually not a political and social triumph, rather that these women are actually single mothers struggling to feed their family. While I love that it is now acceptable for women TO be the sole breadwinners, I would hardly call this a victory. I highly doubt that this is a coincidence, and therefore, I would say that your celebration is terribly premature. This is not a reflection of our success at bringing about women's equality, but of our failure to raise responsible young men, and perhaps, even our tendency to strip everyone, male and female, young and old, of their human dignity and their value. For this reason, I have to disagree with you. I want to be like a man. I want to wear the pants, I want the career... but due to the actual circumstances, I'd have to say that it could DEFINITELY be better.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - very true. alas, remembering who is and isn't trolly usually ends up in my goldfish memory, too (Curtis is the exception).
@theotherside - i'm a proud feminist and do nothing of the sort. i tend to avoid condemning a whole gender for something not all of them do (my SO is remarkably not patriarchal and misogynistic).
@theotherside - i'm a proud feminist and do nothing of the sort. i tend to avoid condemning a whole gender for something not all of them do (my SO is remarkably not patriarchal and misogynistic).
I guess I have the best of both worlds. I have a higher salary than my husband and I work from home (I'm in I.T. so I can work over the internet.) I am not a feminist. Just a hard worker who never had children (not by design - never used birth control. Some higher power just decided to keep my genes out of the gene pool, apparently.)
@TheGuyYouD0ntKnow@xanga - "I was arguing in favor of having two parents, actually."a divorce doesn't prevent a child from having two parents. "And yet feminism is also against gender roles and "social constructs"; and the idea that wearing high heels is feminine certainly is. "1. historically, women aren't the only gender to have worn high heels.2. feminism is against gender roles, yes. but i don't see why that would mean that women, and men, cannot choose to wear whatever they like. one of my nicest, and obviously most open-minded, guy friends from college regularly wears skirts. the issue is not what constitutes a gender role, but the notion that those things are meant for specific genders. as a feminist, i'm not against the idea of women wearing heels. i'm against the ideas that only women should wear heels, and that women should wear only heels and nothing else. "the problem is that giving your young daughter high heels because apparently that's what women wear, is encouraging the idea, manipulating a young mind that has yet think on it itself, and also giving a grand head start on back problems all for the sake of a false concept!"i can't say i ever had that experience. my mom let me wear whatever i wanted as a kid, as long as i was legally covered enough to be in public. when i was 10, i wore heels because i wanted to. i never felt like it was required of me.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - how do you consider yourself a feminist then? the feminist stance is that the male based world is holding them back
@P0RCELA1N_D0LL@xanga - no. hes just an asshole.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - yay for cross-dressing!
@T3hZ10n@xanga - plants don't need gardeners... ever seen a forest?
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - "a divorce doesn't prevent a child from having two parents."I never said divorce. Technically, I was speaking of situations where people as a whole have only one parent. My father lives, but that doesn't mean he was a father to me. If your divorced parents are dandy, well, good for you. Divorce usually results in one party paying child support--meaning both parents are involved in supporting the child-- which ultimately negates all of this posts comments about a mother being the "sole breadwinner", and thus, does not apply to the type of situation I was referring to."i can't say i ever had that experience......"That's not relevant to what I was talking about. I was specifically referencing the picture in the post and the fact that it was added by a self-proclaimed feminist. In said picture, the apparent mother is dressed like a business woman and her daughter is dressed as she is. And the fact that whoever took the picture in the first place had the girl wearing heels so young, is basically encouraging it. Which contradicts feminist stances.And while I do not say this with an absolute certainty; the fact that women are so readily portrayed being supposed to wear heels, regardless if it was obvious, likely influenced your decision. I have seen young toddlers who put on their mother's heels because, you know, they're imitating what their mother does and interpret that as a thing that they should do as well.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - well you know... if you were one of those of the pegging persuasion then you just might be better than her in the category of in the body.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - did you build your own house?
@LauraDeLuna@xanga - "plants don't need gardeners... ever seen a forest?"That was my point. Ever seen a star where there was no gravity?If the star is a plant, gravity is a gardener."no. hes just an asshole."Only bitches see me as an asshole. I'm as understanding and sensitive as you choose to be."did you build your own house?"I'm located in an area where all nearby land is owned. Up until now, I would've been sued or incarcerated if I chose to build my own house. If that was not the case I very well would have by now. I've wanted to for a long time. I possess all of the engineering, architecture, plumbing, (etc.) skills and knowledge it takes, but unfortunately money is law.Having a job is no representation of independence or ability.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - dont really care about the whole "job" thing. i was just wondering if you actually built your own house or not.i may be a bitch. but im not your bitch. by that logic it should be evident that you are not given permission to call me a bitch.large objects create gravity... it would therefore be evident that gravity could not exist without the star. it is also evident that, seeing as all stars have gravity and gravity only exists with a star, a star cannot exist without gravity because gravity cannot exist without the object which causes it.a forest does not need a gardener. a forest is not a forest with a gardener.i do not see how the two things are the same.
I really enjoy reading all your comments that have turned into an intense debate because I believe this is a sensitive subject and one that has changed (for numerous reasons) family dynamics. People have to live their lives the way that is right for them. Whether it is a single parent household (which is unfortunate or fortunate, however you look at it) or a household with two parents. As I stated in my post, although my mother was a stay at home mother by choice, leaving a flourishing career as a fashion designer and business owner to raise my younger brother and I, she taught me to always depend upon myself and to go for a career and flourish ON MY OWN. In my opinion, I think it's a great thing that more women are choosing to work and being the sole breadwinners or being forced to work or however you want to look at it (being many factors involved in WHY more women are working) I still think it is a great thing. All of my friends are full time working women by choice (those who have significant others are making just as much if not more than their significant others) who are working hard and not planning on being stay at home mothers and dammit MORE POWER TO THEM! Keep the debate going!
@LauraDeLuna@xanga - "large objects create gravity... it would therefore be evident that gravity could not exist without the star."Large objects create gravity?Sorry dear, but every object in the universe from a supermassive black hole to objects smaller than a grain of sand exerts a gravitational pull on every other object in the universe no matter how large or small. However easier they are to teach and understand, heliocentric (or rather, stellarcentric) models of the universe are no more real or true than geocentric models."a forest does not need a gardener."I said a plant does not need a gardener. There are plants that exist that would not have existed if there was no gardener. It was a reference to specific cases versus general cases. Stars do not need gravity to exist, but the ones that do exist... they exist due to the gravitational properties of the matter they are composed of. I'm really doubting that I can explain it to you based on a suspicion that you lack prerequisite knowledge.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - you are still trying to say that a star can exist without gravity because a plant cannot exist without a gardener.THIS IS A LOGICAL FALLACY!!!!!!!! NOT TO MENTION A TERRIBLE METAPHOR!!!GO BACK TO FRESHMAN ENGLISH!
I think the picture attached to this post bothers me more than the fact that gender means anything-- it's simply a social construction. But why is that career woman holding what seems to be a relatively young, little girl, wearing high heels? Isn't there something a bit "off" about that?I agree with #T3hZ10n@xanga, "Independent is as independent does. Nobody who uses money is independent, or the "sole" anything . . . This isn't a male/female thing. It's an everybody working together thing." Like racism and sexuality, gender should never have even been an issue. Why can't we seek happiness, instead of subscribing to pointless stereotypes?Leave gender to the poets. or, at the very least, intellectuals equipped to examine such concepts...
@LauraDeLuna@xanga - "you are still trying to say that a star can exist without gravity because a plant cannot exist without a gardener."I am saying that there are plants that can exist without a gardener... BUT THERE ARE ALSO PLANTS THAT CANNOT.Every observable star in the universe is composed of gasses that were attracted to each other by a gravitational force THAT PREEXISTED THE STAR ITSELF.Funny fact: I failed freshman English 4 times while ironically I scored "Advanced" in English on my standardized graduation test (the highest possible).
@T3hZ10n@xanga - you did not implicitly state that in your original metaphor.while the two subjects of the metaphor must be different, there must be consistency to them for the metaphor to be metaphorical. this means if you said "certain plants cannot exist without a gardener, similarly a star cannot exist without gravity" then your metaphor would have been appropriately metaphorical. you didnt say that however. you had a "can" and you had a "cant". lack of consistency = no metaphor.i failed freshman english once because i didnt turn in some essay. also i never did my homework. otherwise i would have aced the class.i also scored in the advanced level in all of my testing.my problem is that they weigh the homework towards your grade more than they do the tests. if they only graded based on tests i would almost always get A's.
Glad that earning your own $$ is important to you. I am employed full time as a professional and earn 2/3 more than my spouse. I work on keeping my car and home in tip top shape, care for my children, volunteer and be fiscally responsible. I think all of this is damn hard. I am sure my stressors would decrease dramatically if I didn't have to earn my paycheck. My worth is not dependent on my paycheck or my ability to earn one. I love my job. Yet, as I reflect on women's rights...I believe that our children are being largely raised by women who are earning minimum wage who may have values or child-rearing philosophies apart from my own . When I enter the front door after a long day's work, I may be cooking half the time, I still do laundry, I help clean the house, wash the cars, drive my kids where they need to go, watch ball games and take home some work to do at night after the kids are asleep. I write the bills, I mend hurt boo boos, I have little time for myself. My stress makes it difficult for me to sleep at night and I have little left over for anyone at the end of the day.I'm wondering....who really won this race?? We ladies??? I'm no longer so sure. But, I'm very glad some of us...you in particular....are thrilled to be making your own money and be financially independent. It was a hard-won achievement by so many who came before us.
this is one of the big reasons why you and I wouldn't get along.... I hate what self-proclaimed feminists seem to encourage in the mind of the masses. It'll be truly even when people stop debating whixh sex has got bigger dicks. Oh.... Wait. anyway. I really dislike what feminism has become in the modern age. And I find almost all self-proclaimed feminists that i've met to be irritating, whiny, and self righteous.
@DenimPants@xanga - I wanted to say that very thing. The feminist movement has veered off course from equality to ridiculousness
'"I'm going to date and marry rich," should be thrown out of our collective consciousness and our relationship-speak as women'There will be true equality when that phrase could just as easily be uttered by BOTH men and women.
This post was riddled with contradictions and very insensitive and disrespectful of men.We should *not* be celebrating being the sole/main breadwinners if that has happened because millions of men have lost their jobs, and the only income that a family now has is the wife's less lucrative job- or a man has left or been pushed out of his family. Literally, you are celebrating a side effect of an economy going downhill. But hey- with feminists it seems like the ends justify the means, so woohoo, right? Anything to get "on top". If there's anything that I will be happy about, it will be the end of hearing complaints about women getting paid less than men. That might be too much to hope for though. What would be excellent, and cause for celebration? An economy expanding vigorously, with millions of private sector jobs created, so that anyone who wanted to work could find work- male or female. Also, the repeal of affirmative action-type laws, so that gains for women in the workplace could be taken seriously, and so that businesses could always choose the best person for the position, which would lead to further expansion.
@xraindropsonroses@xanga - Are women only allowed to be in the kitchen then? Your "But I like being a woman!" comment has me concerned about your knowledge of domestic roles and abuse. I love being a woman but I hate being home. My spouse does most of the cleaning, half the cooking and I earn more. It works for us and no one has ever accused me of not being female.
@Illypad - My "but I like being a woman!" was in response to the title of the post saying that women are the new men.... It was a jest, this is datingish. It had absolutely nothing to do with intimate partner abuse, so no concern needed. I'm glad you found what works for you, as that is what makes a relationship successful.
@theotherside - in many cultures, that's still the case. you presume to believe that the only women American feminists care about are ourselves. of course, i didn't get into the game until third-wave feminism. i don't really know any feminists who are man-haters. and most men i know identify themselves as feminist.
@TheGuyYouD0ntKnow@xanga - "Which contradicts feminist stances."according to what? where in contemporary feminist literature does it dictate that female children should be prevented from wearing high heels? i think your concept of a feminist is delusional. "I have seen young toddlers who put on their mother's heels because, you know, they're imitating what their mother does and interpret that as a thing that they should do as well. "my mom didn't, and doesn't, wear a heel any higher than half an inch.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - "where in contemporary feminist literature""lol". Typical feminist. Actions speak louder than claims. I do not care what "feminist literature" says because it has nothing to do with the actions of feminists."i think your concept of a feminist is delusional."More typical feminism. "Someone is against me so clearly they don't know what feminism is!". Because apparently, there is no way anyone could be against your hypocritical movement.Anyway, as I already said, feminists are against gender roles and "social constructs". In our society, high heels are considered a female thing, and portraying a little girl wearing high heeled shoes is pushing that concept because you're throwing something on her that is one of the only legitimate socially constructed ideas. They have a picture of an apparent mother and daughter, the daughter dressed like the mother, and basically saying "look, strong women!". The idea that pink is a feminine color is a horrible, terrible social construct, and we should never dress our daughters in pink because we're promoting a false idea! ...But heels, sure. Start as early as you can with those.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - Most definitely, feminists in other countries are not only fighting for equality but even their lives at times. American feminists of late have no taste of real persecution and even those somewhat persecuted have a full legal system at their disposal to aid them. (that is filled with male &female judges and attorneys). Explain to me your ideals as a feminist and what it is feminists in America stand for because I asked you that and no answer was given. A lot of so-called feminists don't even know the core values.
@TheGuyYouD0ntKnow@xanga - "Because apparently, there is no way anyone could be against your hypocritical movement."i can't speak for everyone who claims to be a feminist, but MY movement is one of equality for all. if you don't support that because you feel like some go about it the wrong way, that says a lot about you as a human being. unlike you, i don't judge entire groups of people based on the actions of a few. "The idea that pink is a feminine color is a horrible, terrible social construct, and we should never dress our daughters in pink because we're promoting a false idea! ...But heels, sure. Start as early as you can with those."my favorite color is pink. if i ever have a daughter, i'll probably buy some pink clothes for her. are gross generalizations of feminists really all you have to bring to this discussion? because your ignorance is becoming tiresome. you hate feminists because you believe in a stereotype. i'm sure you imagine us to all be short-haired manhaters who refuse to wear skirts and makeup. that makes you a closed-minded moron, and no different from the men who like to perpetuate the opposite female stereotype.
@theotherside - for me, it's about ridding ourselves of any notion that only men should do X, and only women should do Y. i think men and women are equal in pretty much every sense, and i don't see the purpose of deciding what someone can and cannot do based on their gender.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - would you pit a professional female boxer versus a professional male boxer?
@T3hZ10n@xanga - that doesn't negate the fact that you are the spawn of a dino killer!!!!! my bunny ancestors were and still are peaceful and non-killers.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - you're suppose to eat the sun chips with your mouth, not Uranus. that'll cause Assteriods if you stick it in the blackhole.
@T3hZ10n@xanga - the sun does not abide by human science, because the sun eats sun chips. SUN CHIPS!!!! that is the key to longevity and no need for gravity. one would have to consume a billion lbs of sun chips per day to be that sunny and invincible
@P0RCELA1N_D0LL@xanga - It's all your fault, now I want sun chips. ALL YOUR FAULT.
@theotherside - sure, as long as they were of the same weight class.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - Do you have any idea of the male to female ratio of upper body strength, even if they are the same weight class? The point I'm driving at is that in not all instances is absolute equality a good thing. I think women should be fighting to be treated with dignity, respect and against oppression that harms their life, their families or their livelihoods (as well as liberty and justice). A lot of the feminist movement is misplaced and fighting against things that are ridiculous, such as one feminist telling everyone that a vaginal orgasm is not real because it has to do with depending on a man's penis. She was not even American, so this movement of idiocy does not solely rest with the American population of feminists. I would gladly be a feminist if they embraced the equality of all, not trying to prove that they are "better" than anyone else or rejecting men entirely and if their focus was more guided instead of the sloppy nonsense it has become.
@theotherside - "Do you have any idea of the male to female ratio of upper body strength, even if they are the same weight class?"sure. but i also have several female friends who, thanks to years of training in martial arts, can take down men half their size. for many women, such setbacks can be overcome. so why should their choices be restricted? "The point I'm driving at is that in not all instances is absolute equality a good thing."i have to disagree. we can't pick and choose how we'd like to be equal based on what preferences we have. either we're equal to men, or we're not. anything in between results in those women who like to bitch about equality in the workplace and reproductive rights, but would freak out at the idea of women being included in a military draft (i'd support it, by the way). you can't have your cake and eat it, too. "I would gladly be a feminist if they embraced the equality of all, not trying to prove that they are "better" than anyone else or rejecting men entirely and if their focus was more guided instead of the sloppy nonsense it has become."*shrug* well, that's your choice. i'm not one to disregard an ideology or label because of how other people utilize it. i was raised with a different kind of feminism, apparently, and it's not important to me what other feminists do. i do find it kind of sad that you reject the entire feminist movement, but probably still benefit from it.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - if you don't feel that we should pick and choose, let's save some tax money and make all the jails co-ed.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - "you can't have your cake and eat it, too."I do all the time..."i'm not one to disregard an ideology or label because of how other people utilize it."I don't subscribe to all of their beliefs, in fact, though I am open to the idea that the existence of a deity is absolutely possible, without evidence I don't believe there is a God, but since it doesn't matter how other people use it, I guess I'm Jewish because I think they're cool.
um, i think it sucks that theres an increasing amount of single moms out there.
@theotherside - i'd be okay with that. i'd actually like to see jails sorted according to offense. murderers in one, thieves in another, etc. if someone is charged for multiple crimes, they get sorted according to the most serious offense. i don't believe sex should be a factor in which prison you go to.
@xraindropsonroses@xanga - Ah, my bad. Sorry I misread. Thank you for clarifying.
@flapper_femme_fatale@xanga - wow............maybe you should take into consideration that amount of crimes that actually exists in jails (especially the amount of violent and sexual crimes in male jails) and then add to the fact that many women in jail are pregnant and that no matter how much you'd like to argue, that a huge majority of women are not nearly as strong as men.
=} reminds me, I wrote a blog about my opinion on the popular american feminism. and out of curiosity.... what does society gain if women do become the sole breadwinners of a family? It just seems like a fact, and not something to praise. Then again, I don't think that having or not having a job is very much related to feminism. Maybe many decades ago, but now a days, the act of earning money is no longer a big issue in feminism. So maybe this is why this article does not resonate with me... at all. Also.... who-ever-used and when-ever-was-there a saying "I'm going to date rich and marry rich"?. no wonder guys don't trust us...
I'm all for equality but being the breadwinner in my home *my husband is disabled* it would be nice to be taken care of or at least be equally responsible to take some pressure away. I want to be able to raise my own kids even if I have to be a working mom and it seems like ill be the one working while he stays home. All I can hope is that we will be in a position that I wont have to work so much Im not able to spend time with our kids.
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