July 16, 2013
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Virginity: What Does It Mean to You?
I was on Tumblr the other day and came across a very interesting post that I wanted to share with you all. It reads, "I think virginity is the most over-hyped, illogical concept I’ve ever heard of, let alone one of the largest double-standards in history. I have no idea why people over-hype the fact that someone hasn’t had sex, or why they equate it to 'innocence', 'virtue', or 'honor'. It simply means you haven’t had sex, it doesn’t say anything about your character."
I think for the longest time I was convinced when I was younger that if I lost my virginity, in some way, I would be worth less. I was taught that outside of marriage, sex is a sin, and losing your virginity to anyone but your husband was unforgivable. Over the years as I got older and started to redefine what things meant to me, I realized that I didn't have to just accept everything I'd been taught as law. After all, my virginity was mine, and mine alone. So when, and who, I lost it to was completely up to me.
What do you readers think about the above quote about virginity? What does your virginity, or lack thereof, mean to you? Do you think virginity and innocence/honor/virtue are related? Do you think sex outside of marriage is unacceptable?
Comments (29)
Way back when...when there was no reliable birth control OTHER than abstinence, when there were no paternity tests etc premarital virginity was the way a man knew he wasn't going to be catching cooties from his new bride, nor raising any kids fathered by another man. It was the reality for thousands of years, in order to reinforce supportive behavior, all manner of laws, religious teachings, superstitions etc arose surrounding the value of virginity, and many of them have stuck.It still holds that a person who's had few or no previous sex partners are less likely to bring cooties to the bedroom, less likely to compare your performance unfavorably in bed, and many people feel, less likely to go outside the relationship looking for action. (no clue of that is statistically true or not)I find the archaic terminology of "lost virginity" "lost it to, so and so" "they took my virginity" etc sorta odd when they are not being used to describe forcible sex.Lost it? That terminology made sense when virginity was a necessary trading commodity...but it seems kinda weird these days. I'd rather a partner who hasn't had dozens of partners, for safety's sake (less chance of STD's) and yeah, because I think a partner who doesn't tend to have sex outside of committed relationships is less likely to stray.
First of all, how is it a double standard?That quote sounds very snippy, like the person is resentful about it (because who is it a "double standard" to? Why does the person automatically assume one who wants a virgin isn't also a virgin? Projecting their own history much?).Does it need to be directly related to virtue or honor for it to be a valid preference? It's funny how picky people can be, like he has to have a job (because that's a sign that he's responsible), or he has to live on his own (because that's a sign that he's mature), but to want a virgin is somehow wrong or unfair because it doesn't mean anything? Nobody bitches about guys that only date women... what does being a woman mean? Or Asians... what is so special about being Asian? Because in those cases it would be blatantly unfair to expect a person to date someone they're not physically attracted to. But we're led to feel guilty and ashamed for wanting a virgin because 9 times out of 10 the woman wishes she still was one (which explains the snippyness of the quote), but we should be understanding while they ruthlessly judge us for the most ridiculous and superficial things from our choice in clothing to our facial hair.Like the phrase goes, "Stage 5 clinger"... well, some people would actually enjoy taking that kind of responsibility for the other person's happiness because they can handle it. Like a parent adopting an orphan, of course you don't do it if you can't handle that kind of responsibility, but don't talk shit about people who do.Like I said on the post before this one:"50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce."You absolutely carry your previous relationships with you, and over time you become more jaded, cynical, and selfish when they don't work out.You can be virtuous, honorable, and innocent and when combined it makes it that much more special if you are a virgin as well, because if it turns out that's what he/she wants, then you have the opportunity to give the one you love all 4 qualities. Sure, that quote says virginity doesn't equate to having those qualities... but it doesn't equate to not having those qualities either.After all, I'm the perfect example...I had sex with one person, ever, and I'm absolutely committed to her. How is it a double standard to want that from someone if you are willing to give it?If you're wondering why I have such a strong opinion on this considering that I've had sex before, it's because mine was taken so wrongfully that in my mind I still identify myself as being virgin, though I would never lie about it. I gave it to a person who beforehand swore in every way she would always be there for me and that I was the only one for her. I was not willing to give it to someone who would sleep with multiple other guys during the period of time she promised to wait for me.
I think the dishonor is where sex is had with an individual of lesser moral value, such as a whore, no matter how many. I might also find it dishonorable to withhold from sex with someone of desirable moral value for shallow or irrational reasons.
@Facetiouseloquence@xanga - As someone who would judge others as having done something dishonorable for having sex with someone of lesser moral value than him or herself, I'm assuming you've never done that?Let's say that hypothetically Person A slept with someone they met at a party they didn't really know and they ended up being used for sex. Would that mean Person A has done something dishonorable considering that they wouldn't use another person for sex thus they have slept with someone of lesser moral value?What if Person A had shallow or irrational reasons for not putting out? Wouldn't that situation (and the resulting dishonor) have been avoided entirely?Do you know of anyone who not only has deep and rational reasons for not having sex with someone of higher moral value, but who also has never had sex with someone of lesser moral value?When you think about it, if you have had sex with someone of lesser moral value than yourself, the only honorable course of action would be to not have sex with anyone else from that point on... because if you sleep with someone of higher moral value than yourself, then they would be doing something dishonorable by sleeping with you (i.e. a person of lesser moral value). Gee... I highly doubt there's anyone out there who would sleep with one person then give up sex entirely with anyone else because they don't want to impose dishonor onto a person of higher moral value than himself. I imagine that would be quite a deep and rational reason for withholding sex... because he doesn't want to do anything dishonorable by having sex with someone of lesser moral value, but at the same time he doesn't want anyone else doing something dishonorable by sleeping with him.
I think the quote is from someone who has faced judgment on the issue or had someone they care about face judgment on the issue for far too long.I agree that virginity is your's. However, I also view it as something special. Heart ache comes into the picture whenever you give it away to anyone but the one you want to spend the rest of your life with, and they feel the same. True story. Never heard it ending well for people whom have had sex outside of marriage. However, I believe that sex is what marries two people, as well... In Biblical terms, at least.
So, yeah. I believe that you need to be highly selective in whom you give your virginity to. It's a gift that once you give it away, you can never reclaim... So make sure it's to someone whom is worth it. You know?Be safe,~*Akarui Mitsukai*~
I was raped as a kid, so I never had virginity to think about. It (or lack of) never meant much to me. Experience did, which is why I had sex for the first time. I was sick of being inexperienced. Virginity is...pointless. Why do people care? How does anyone even know. How do you prove it? For all we know the whole world is lying about the notches on their bed post.
nowadays, maybe 1 out of 10, it might equate to those qualities. back in the maid marian from robin hood movie days where she wore a chastity belt, and restrained, maybe 6 out of 10 equates to those qualities(unless they also found loopholes and had oral/anal sex and doesn't see that as sex) if some people really want to get married for religious reasons, because they can't wait to have sex, then that's their choice, but not something that I particularly prefer for lack of another word, because some people in marriages aren't faithful, while some people, who are committed, but not married, may be more loyal or not. it depends on the individual people. if "popping the cherry" is what virginity means to some people, then I popped my own with a sex toy it is no longer anything if it was something or everything or nothing to begin with depending on whatever one wants to feel that it is. I was really horny but extremely picky, so I wasn't going to just have a fling or even sleep with a guy, whom I'm in a serious relationship with just to have sex or not be a virgin. and I was at the I hate guys stage, so I think it was due to my diva spite, so I popped my own so nobody can pop it before I, the cherry owner! I did it with myself the first time and that's how I like it okay, that's enough creepy bunny comment for today. it means whatever you want it to. own yourself
Virginity is a made up concept that means nothing to me.
@T3hZ10n@xanga – The double standard stems from the fact that, often, the requirement of virginity (and it's supposed clues as to one's character) is only applied to women. For men (generally and, as with all things, depending on the area/culture you're observing), losing virginity is a coming-of-age moment and something which reassures others of his character. At best, men losing their virginity is viewed neutrally while, almost always, women must suffer some form of a social consequence. Even amongst those who are alright with premarital sex, the notion of sleeping around a lot is viewed with disdain (when, I would assume for the author, sex has no bearing on one's character)."How is it a double standard to want that from someone if you are willing to give it?"Because, I have a feeling, you would be horrified if I demanded of you to murder other people just because I was willing to do the same.The author of the quote finds no moral objections to losing one's virginity and, thus, is outraged at the expectation from total strangers that everyone should apply such a standard to themselves. I have a strong feeling that the author wouldn't have a remote issue with two people in a relationship, who both value saving their virginity, saving themselves for each other. But the outright expectation that everyone else fall in line with this ideal as well? Unacceptable to the author.
The photo is so funning.
@Saridactyl@xanga - Everything is a made up concept.@thirst2@xanga - "The double standard stems from the fact that, often, the requirement of virginity (and it's supposed clues as to one's character) is only applied to women."I'd fix that contradiction. Is it often or is it only? If it's just "often", I can say it surely happens to men every day as well, so it's not so much a matter of time as you implied with "often", but a matter of quantity in that women are judged in higher numbers, but not more often. Men are judged in higher numbers for their wealth. I don't want to be with a woman who judges based on wealth, but I don't have a problem with them whereas this author clearly has a chip on her shoulder because underneath it all it obviously does matter to her and she's trying to convince herself it's pointless."Because, I have a feeling, you would be horrified if I demanded of you to murder other people just because I was willing to do the same."Nobody said anything about demanding that a person do something even remotely harmful. This is about standards, not quasi-rape.I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that anything is being demanded from any individual because:1. You can't "demand" virginity from someone who isn't one, and 2. If you're a virgin, you're not obligated to have sex with a person if you morally object to their requirements."The author of the quote finds no moral objections to losing one's virginity and, thus, is outraged at the expectation from total strangers that everyone should apply such a standard to themselves."Everybody has standards they hold themselves to that they also hold others to.
When I was younger, being a virgin made you "uncool". I remember lying along with my friends (and probably most of my grade) and saying I was no longer a virgin at 14 years old. Looking back at it now, it made me really sad, because I lied about it for years because I felt so insecure about it. But I wasn't ready to have sex, so while there were some very close calls, I never actually lost it until I was 19. And at that point, I lost it in a drunken one night stand because I was tired of being a virgin.Honestly, being a virgin was the worst. You're constantly worried about your first time, to the point where you can hardly even enjoy it. I didn't have any normal relationships when I was younger because I was always worried that guys would judge me when they found out I was actually a virgin. To put it bluntly, it SUCKED. I respect any woman who can stay a virgin because of moral beliefs, because they didn't give way to insecurity or peer pressure.I am looking forward to my "first time", though. I've never really enjoyed sex because I've never been with anyone who I really cared enough about, or was comfortable with. I used to think sex was something you had to do if you wanted to be in a relationship, and EARLY in the relationship, so I was never comfortable with any guy. I felt I couldn't trust them, like they were trying to take something from me, but I didn't want to say no because I felt like I owed them something, so I turned it into their fault in my own mind. Eventually I realized that was a feeling I was creating in myself, and if I was that uncomfortable with it, I could absolutely say no. And any guy who cared about be wouldn't berate me or shame me into doing it. I also realized it was unfair to associate these thoughts with my exes, since I was basically demonizing them for my own issues. Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble on. Basically virginity doesn't mean much to me. But that first time where you really feel the connection with the other person, instead of just having sex, that's what I can't wait for.
@thirst2@xanga - I agree with what you said here about what this post is about. I think it's quite crude to demand everyone to be in a relationship with someone to perform the act. If two people are seeing each other steadily without being official, I don't see what's the harm, especially if it's protected. What two people who have no connections to a stranger in New Zealand do in the bedroom will not affect them unless they are connected in the same circles then it would.By that standard of acting "holy," then people will be waiting an eternity to get laid. Most of the times it's not the fault of women that they aren't in relationships. It is mostly the women who do want relationships but they are deemed "sluts" when they can't be with the man they want and ask for a fling instead because that's all they can get with said interest, Lol. I'll never forget that. They can't control someone who doesn't want to be in a relationship that they want to have a relationship with but somehow it's the women's fault, vice versa rarely is it ever the man who wants a relationship. At least with the men in my area most of them want to sleep around being single or cheat on people and act single. Yet somehow, I'm the "problem" haha.I can also point out another double standard. Someone had the nerve to call me a slut even though he sleeps around casually with no commitments at all, and with multiple partners. At least I'm not promiscuous when it comes to casual sex so I don't know who that MF was calling ME a slut. Of course I would never get an apology from that person for being such a hypocrite, instead he acts like he's the pathetic victim and blocks me from his site, LOL. Why am I the slut but he's not? We all know what Xangan I'm talking about, ha.
What's wrong with just wanting to be with one person? There are so few people that actually keep their virginity until marriage that I don't see how it affects everyone else or why people always want to belittle those who wait. If that's not your or your partner(s) lifestyle then it doesn't concern you, but it's no reason to belittle people who want to wait until they've met the right person.
@mycontinuity@xanga - Same could be asked of what's wrong with people having casual sex? More people are being judged for having casual sex than they are still being a virgin. I find nothing wrong with casual sex as long as everyone is protected. If someone finds a person to settle down with who accepts his/her history before they met, what's it to people when their lives have nothing to do with said person's sexual history? It's not like they're the ones marrying that "slut."
@xinq@xanga - "More people are being judged for having casual sex than they are still being a virgin."Umm... you ever think that's because there are more people who have casual sex than there are virgins?"If someone finds a person to settle down with who accepts his/her history before they met, what's it to people when their lives have nothing to do with said person's sexual history? It's not like they're the ones marrying that "slut.""That's one less person in the world that fits their criteria. When the vast majority of people are having sex, that limits a virgin's choices almost exclusively to people who aren't... unless they want to spend their entire lives looking for someone and dying alone because almost nobody else finds it possible keep their legs closed for more than a few months.The popular sentiment is contradictory:Supposedly, you shouldn't "need" someone else to be happy because it's wrong. They're not responsible for your happiness...At the same time, the people who say this are overwhelmingly not virgins and use others all the time to maintain their emotional health... because going so long without sex apparently has negative consequences and it's not fair to expect someone to do that because then they would be unhappy... but wait a minute... that means the person NEEDS another person to be happy. No shit?How is it that you "deserve" to have sex? If there was only one other person in the world, and he finds you unattractive, what then?The way you talk is that nobody is responsible for your happiness, and yet, if you would be unhappy waiting until you found one person you would stay with forever, then you are RELYING on other people to have sex with you, because if they didn't, you would be miserable.
Virginity means that you have never been inside someone (other than your mother's womb) or had someone inside you in a way that involved genitals. Yes it has to do with honor, innocence and virtue. No it is not acceptable to have sex before marriage. It pisses me off when people treat it like it's nothing because mine was stolen from me and I would give anything to have it back.
I hung out with this one girl. She talked DIRTY!! She made sex jokes, told details by details. Then suddenly, tells me she is still a virgin. I was SHOCKED! She went on explaining how she also like the idea of giving it to one person and alone. She didn't want to deal with the pressure of having sex, nor the idea of sharing sex with people who's been around. I liked her and respected her very much that day. She was awesome gal.
people judge you on your character based on the clothes you wear, the school you go to, the religion you associate with - so why is it such a surprise that people will judge you (different people will judge differently) based on your sexual status?
@T3hZ10n@xanga – Umm, what contradiction? "[…O]ften, the requirement of virginity[…]is only applied to women." Only applied to women as in contrasting applying it to both women and men and contrasting applying it only to men. In other words, there are a majority of people out there applying the standard of virginity to only women instead of applying it to all sexes or only men. There's positively no contradiction in that sentence."[…W]omen are judged in higher numbers, but not more often." Let's assume that there aren't people out there changing their opinion on the matter every 5 minutes or that, if such people exist, their numbers are negligible (after all, we don't debate morals and values if we have the expectation they will be in flux frequently). Therefore – if women are judged in higher numbers –, we are forced to assume the number of people judging women on the basis of virginity is higher than the number of people who do the same for men. If, of the total population, there are more people judging women on the basis of virginity in comparison to people judging men for the same thing, the frequency with which a woman is going to encounter a person who might judge her based on her opinions of premarital sex and virginity is higher than for a man. This, by its very nature, necessitates that women would be judged more often for their opinions on premarital sex and virginity."Nobody said anything about demanding that a person do something even remotely harmful. This is about standards, not quasi-rape." You missed my point; I was merely refuting your statement: "How is it a double standard to want that from someone if you are willing to give it?". Your statement says that there's nothing wrong with wanting something so long as you're willing to expect the same of yourself and I was merely giving you an example which would illustrate the misplaced logic. Obviously, you could make the argument that this applies to non-harmful requirements (as you did) or a myriad of other tweaks which might save the statement but, at the time, you hadn't and so it was easily deconstruct-able."I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that anything is being demanded from any individual because:1. You can't "demand" virginity from someone who isn't one[…]" Technically, you can. There are plenty of movements dedicated to the notion of having a "second virginity" in which they choose to not have sex again until marriage, etc. These tweak the definition of the word, sure, but they still keep themselves wed to the ideas that when you have sex and how frequently you have sex are tied to your moral character.Secondly – if a person is a virgin –, it's very easy to demand that said person remain a virgin. This is often the social pressure that is pointed to when talking about the expectation of virginity."Everybody has standards they hold themselves to that they also hold others to." You're correct. And that bleeds into media and writing and other places where it gets a larger audience. The degree to which I've heard disparaging comments about people's character and their worth as individuals regarding their sexual practices is astounding; in contrast, I can't remember the last time I've heard the same in relation to the wealth of a man. And that's the point. I might value, in a relationship, someone who is more frugal in their expenses. But I'm not about to tear down the character of someone who spends more than I particularly like. Virginity as a standard has far reaching consequences for real people that other standards often do not. Obviously, you can push it off and say, "That's not my problem," but there are others who are bothered by that fact. Regardless, it doesn't stop you from valuing virginity or the traits that may require (self-restraint, loyalty, etc.) in your own relationships.
@thirst2@xanga - Yeah, so as it turns out your reply is absolute shit and nowhere near worthy of me actually putting any amount of thought into a counterargument. You're so far off on every point I wouldn't even know where to start. Reading it literally reminded me of a 5-year-old rambling on about how his day went and I'm just too fucking exhausted to call him out on parts he obviously made up. Whereas some people exhibit a lack of understanding in their counterarguments to me, your reply is, for all I can tell, absolute fluff. There's no substance to anything you said whatsoever."You missed my point; I was merely refuting your statement..."That seems to be your entire second reply (or rather, unsuccessful attempts to refute). There's no real point to it other than to say "Well, you're not necessarily right if you consider this." The best example being your response to what I said about it being impossible to demand virginity from someone who isn't a virgin: "Technically, you can. There are plenty of movements dedicated to the notion of having a "second virginity" in which they choose to not have sex again until marriage, etc."Like seriously, what the fuck are you even talking about? I was talking about virginity, not "second virginity". Literally, everything in your reply is one step removed from what I was actually talking about.
@T3hZ10n@xanga – There was only two parts to my first comment: why the author considered it a double standard and why the author objects so strongly to others holding this expectation for the author.That was it; you responded to it.The first two paragraphs of my second comment are simply logical proofs. You said I made a contradictory statement and then made a point about the supposed contradiction. There is literally (notice, yet again, the non-ambiguity) no way there could be technicality to those two paragraphs; you were wrong and I demonstrated why. It's interesting to see that, rather than refute my arguments or point to a flaw that caused them to be wrong, you decided to call me names with no proof whatsoever.Because the second portion dealt with the social pressure that notions of virginity can have (because that was the entire point of why I felt the author had such a negative reaction to the notion of virginity and ties into why he or she sees it as a double standard) (I put in bold and italicized it so you wouldn't miss), the fact that there are groups who believe in "second virginity" is entirely important because it means that the notion of virginity (and its preservation) are so important that people have invented this concept. Should I repeat it? We'll do points this time.> You said you can't force virginity.> We've already established that virginity is often used (arguably unfairly) to determine character.> If people are inventing a concept such as "second virginity", the social pressure to be a virgin must be strong enough for people to feel the need to invent such a concept (and give an avenue for others who've had sex to claim the innocence and good character assumed by being a virgin). Seriously, you couldn't draw that conclusion?I find it ironic that you accuse me of being unable to make an argument. I'll accept that it may take more time for us to reach a consensus when it comes to how strong the social pressure may or may not be for people to stay virgins and value virginity but the first two paragraphs of my last comment were literally just logical proofs.If you find it necessary to call me names rather than simply point out where in my individual arguments there's a flaw, I really have no interest in continuing this discussion either.
@thirst2@xanga - And you're still fucking doing it...
@T3hZ10n@xanga – And you're still making claims without demonstrating how they're true; I'd point out (again) how this is not how discussions or arguments work but I suppose we're all entitled to our choices.
the person who wrote that quote sounds overly defensive and a little bitter.
I don't find anything particularly special about the term virginity, I just use it because I haven't had sex yet. Linking the term to the other words is just stupid for many reasons which I'll have to expand on later.
i agree wholeheartedly with the statement.my lack of virginity meant that i enjoyed years of sex with another person. no,your fingers or a butterfly kiss don't feel the same as the real thang.virginity does relate to the three triats you've mentioned, though not traits I personally equate with "goodness" and are not important to me.yes I think it is acceptable
Regardless of the person's reasons for making this statement, I agree with it.
@LeeKymKween@xanga - Exactly.Apparently the majority of people who agree with this quote would say everybody is entitled to their own opinion... while insidiously arguing that virginity means nothing (to everyone) or should for whatever reason. Notably because it's "unfair" or some other shit.
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